Is it time to make Xbow season the same ?

Little FR

12 pointer
Nov 10, 2021
3,304
West Kentucky
I’ve killed several button bucks but I hunt a lot with traditional muzzleloaders and a few other guns with open sights. It happens, I’d rather not but I don’t loose any sleep over it
There’s two kinds of hunters, those that have and those that will. (Not including trophy only hunters) I killed one with a bow that I put range finder on and flat out couldn’t tell, I was %100 it was a doe.

When I’m fawn killing I prefer not to but when they got spots, they all taste the same.

We had a dominant buck on our farm that peaked at 135”. I finally used a tag and got rid of him. He was a mean old cuss. Our deer herd vastly improved after he quit running off all the big deer. Natures a crapshoot.
 

120+

12 pointer
Aug 22, 2006
17,723
You can't get there from here.
You dont. Until the buck reaches maturity and the traits you desire do/do not manifest. Until then, it's a crap shoot. Most people aren't hunting for the smallest rack on their properties? If the largest antlered buck on your property is killed in September or early October, there is a very good chance he has not passed his genes that year. He could have previously but unless you can tell the future you don't know if that 120" 2yr old would be a 170" at 4.5. That's why you pass on young bucks. Or, why some do.
The reply was to the statement of allowing "more dominant bucks" to breed. I'm saying just because a buck is dominant doesn't mean he's going to produce better offspring. There's a lot of older bully bucks that don't have big antlers. It's a crap shoot regardless.
 

WildmanWilson

12 pointer
Dec 26, 2004
12,002
Western Ky.
No, it's an equal amount of genetic material from each parent. Some traits are undoubtedly recessive or superior.
This is what I'm referring to.

One of the most overlooked facets when it comes to judging the quality of a buck’s rack is the role of the doe. Not only does the mother influence her offspring’s antlers environmentally, but she contributes to them genetically as well. Believe it or not, a doe can have an even greater genetic impact on her son’s antlers than the sire.

According to Ditchkoff, antlers are genetically determined, but environmentally influenced. While genetic distribution is a combined input from both parents, when it comes to environmental persuasions, the doe bears most, if not all, the responsibility. There are several key environmental pressures that can compromise a buck’s antler growth. Some begin in fetal development.

Proper nutrition for all deer is by far the most basic, yet crucial environmental additive. With it, a buck’s antler potential can soar. Without it, antler quality will suffer. The importance of a doe receiving and providing, adequate nutrition for herself and her fawns is critical. Great genetics mean nothing if wellbeing is compromised.

There are a number of events that can prevent a doe from acquiring sufficient sustenance during pregnancy and beyond. A brutal winter or late spring, especially in the northern regions, can wreak havoc on a pregnant doe’s physical condition. During the last few months of pregnancy, fetal growth increases rapidly, requiring a higher caloric intake from a nutritionally sound diet. When a doe’s nutritional requirements aren’t met, neither are her fawns. Disease, age, and other anomalies can also leave a harmful impression on a doe’s physical condition that can transfer to, and are equally harmful to, her unborn fawns. Low birth weight and other health problems can result.

After fawns are born, it’s possible that deficiencies endured while in the womb, won’t end there. At the very least, it sets them up for a rough start to life. Improper nutrition can cause a lactating doe’s milk production to be low, as well as nutritionally deficient. For a buck fawn, regardless how impressive his genetics are, when his nutritional needs aren’t being met, this paints a discouraging outlook for future antler development.

With that said, nature has a way of righting itself. When inopportune environmental circumstances inflict shortcomings early in the antler development, with optimal conditions, extraordinary genetics may shine once again in all their brilliance. Of course, this is if he isn’t culled as a 1.5-year-old spike because someone mistakenly forgot to consider outside probabilities. In the name of “buck management,” the buck of a lifetime, and his genetics may have unknowingly been eliminated.

The reverse is also true. When you consider the growth cycle of antlers, it’s nothing short of amazing the amount of development that occurs in a matter of only 4 months. To achieve optimal antler development, a buck requires a generous supply of nutrient rich sustenance. During the spring and summer, when food plots are lush and agricultural crops are in full swing, bucks typically have no problem attaining adequate nutrition. A young buck may have lived in a prime environment, but an extreme circumstance like the drought of 2012, which plagued most of the country, can have a damaging impact on a buck’s antler development.

When something catastrophic results in distress to overall health, nature compensates by putting survival at the epicenter of importance, thus forcing antler development into the back seat. As a 3-year-old, due to a negative outside influence, what began as great potential suddenly takes a sharp turn towards inferior. However, when a buck produces antlers well below his potential because of environmental blows, the buck is often eradicated from the herd because he was believed to be inferior. And with it goes his contribution to the gene pool. His antlers might have appeared mediocre because of outside factors, but genetics that were unobservable dictated otherwise.
 

120+

12 pointer
Aug 22, 2006
17,723
You can't get there from here.
Let me rephrase for 120's benefit, " to allow the older, more genetically superior bucks to breed".
Once again, unless you have the deer ear tagged and catalog which one screwed which doe, how do you know they are genetically superior?
The only thing one can possibly claim is that they are smarter because they have lived longer.
Personally I need the dumb ones to breed so I have a better chance.;)
 

KYBOY

12 pointer
Apr 21, 2005
8,500
Floyd,co..Kentucky
Well you know we all have our preferred methods.. I like a big set of bone as much as the next guy but I dont get a high the same way I use too.. Once it was big head-gear with the biggest,fastest magnum I could find...
In the last 15 years or so I got into hunting up close with traditional muzzleloaders and lever-guns and slug-guns.. I like to cast my own bullets, reload and whatnot.. I get a rush of taking an animal with my own ammo, sneaking up on a big fat doe with a muzzleloader and taking her with my own cast balls and home-made patch lube gives me a huge sense of satisfaction...
Point is we all have our druthers, ways to hunt that make us happy. We should all just respect each others methods and harvests whatever they are..
 

KYH5N1

10 pointer
Jan 19, 2008
1,947
In the nightmares of turkeys
Once again, unless you have the deer ear tagged and catalog which one screwed which doe, how do you know they are genetically superior?
The only thing one can possibly claim is that they are smarter because they have lived longer.
Personally I need the dumb ones to breed so I have a better chance.;)
Well, once the buck has reached maturity (4.5 yrs+) and considering environmental conditions (ie Wildman's post) I view antler character and size. Normally by that age I have a photo catalog of said buck to compare growth at earlier ages. Other than that, I just guess.
 

cedar creek

10 pointer
Sep 7, 2014
1,860
This is what I'm referring to.

One of the most overlooked facets when it comes to judging the quality of a buck’s rack is the role of the doe. Not only does the mother influence her offspring’s antlers environmentally, but she contributes to them genetically as well. Believe it or not, a doe can have an even greater genetic impact on her son’s antlers than the sire.

According to Ditchkoff, antlers are genetically determined, but environmentally influenced. While genetic distribution is a combined input from both parents, when it comes to environmental persuasions, the doe bears most, if not all, the responsibility. There are several key environmental pressures that can compromise a buck’s antler growth. Some begin in fetal development.

Proper nutrition for all deer is by far the most basic, yet crucial environmental additive. With it, a buck’s antler potential can soar. Without it, antler quality will suffer. The importance of a doe receiving and providing, adequate nutrition for herself and her fawns is critical. Great genetics mean nothing if wellbeing is compromised.

There are a number of events that can prevent a doe from acquiring sufficient sustenance during pregnancy and beyond. A brutal winter or late spring, especially in the northern regions, can wreak havoc on a pregnant doe’s physical condition. During the last few months of pregnancy, fetal growth increases rapidly, requiring a higher caloric intake from a nutritionally sound diet. When a doe’s nutritional requirements aren’t met, neither are her fawns. Disease, age, and other anomalies can also leave a harmful impression on a doe’s physical condition that can transfer to, and are equally harmful to, her unborn fawns. Low birth weight and other health problems can result.

After fawns are born, it’s possible that deficiencies endured while in the womb, won’t end there. At the very least, it sets them up for a rough start to life. Improper nutrition can cause a lactating doe’s milk production to be low, as well as nutritionally deficient. For a buck fawn, regardless how impressive his genetics are, when his nutritional needs aren’t being met, this paints a discouraging outlook for future antler development.

With that said, nature has a way of righting itself. When inopportune environmental circumstances inflict shortcomings early in the antler development, with optimal conditions, extraordinary genetics may shine once again in all their brilliance. Of course, this is if he isn’t culled as a 1.5-year-old spike because someone mistakenly forgot to consider outside probabilities. In the name of “buck management,” the buck of a lifetime, and his genetics may have unknowingly been eliminated.

The reverse is also true. When you consider the growth cycle of antlers, it’s nothing short of amazing the amount of development that occurs in a matter of only 4 months. To achieve optimal antler development, a buck requires a generous supply of nutrient rich sustenance. During the spring and summer, when food plots are lush and agricultural crops are in full swing, bucks typically have no problem attaining adequate nutrition. A young buck may have lived in a prime environment, but an extreme circumstance like the drought of 2012, which plagued most of the country, can have a damaging impact on a buck’s antler development.

When something catastrophic results in distress to overall health, nature compensates by putting survival at the epicenter of importance, thus forcing antler development into the back seat. As a 3-year-old, due to a negative outside influence, what began as great potential suddenly takes a sharp turn towards inferior. However, when a buck produces antlers well below his potential because of environmental blows, the buck is often eradicated from the herd because he was believed to be inferior. And with it goes his contribution to the gene pool. His antlers might have appeared mediocre because of outside factors, but genetics that were unobservable dictated otherwise.
Educational, nice read
 

120+

12 pointer
Aug 22, 2006
17,723
You can't get there from here.
Well, once the buck has reached maturity (4.5 yrs+) and considering environmental conditions (ie Wildman's post) I view antler character and size. Normally by that age I have a photo catalog of said buck to compare growth at earlier ages. Other than that, I just guess.
I guess too. I see a buck and guess whether I can/want to get a shot.
 

OLE RASPY

12 pointer
Sep 9, 2018
3,210
Barren county
Once again, unless you have the deer ear tagged and catalog which one screwed which doe, how do you know they are genetically superior?
The only thing one can possibly claim is that they are smarter because they have lived longer.
Personally I need the dumb ones to breed so I have a better chance.;)
Then you go and kill the doe. WTH. LOL.
GOTTA HAVE MEAT.
 

JDMiller

12 pointer
Jun 12, 2005
10,801
" Between the Rivers "
I just about missed out on a good crossbow thread .. here’s my thoughts.

First ….. sometimes a person has to look back to move forward. Being a short 20 years ago in Ky ….crossbow was only legal when a gun season was in and there was a crossbow season of about a week in December. In 2005 it was expanded and just a few years ago it was expanded again to the current season.

Why was it expanded…… in a nut shell because bow hunters do a piss poor job of killing enough deer to control the population…. especially in zones 1 & 2. Same could be said for muzzle loader and conventional gun….. they both have seen increases in days and opportunity to control populations and ultimately why conventional archery is 4.5 months now. It saw the biggest expansion of all…. but still not enough to make a dent in controlling the numbers needed to be harvested.

Expansions of crossbow seasons is merely a band-aid and honestly the last resort before significant increases to muzzleloader & conventional gun seasons are needed to increase harvest numbers. Which as many states are doing by allowing for straight walled cartridge seasons now.

Which we can argue crossbow versus conventional archery bows all day long … but at the end of the day it’s all about harvesting enough deer to keep our populations in check.

Which a dyed in the wool anti crossbow bow hunter has to ask himself…. would I’d rather expand seasons on…crossbows or gun seasons….. which most have come to realize crossbows are the better alternative for now.

Again just a band aid.
 


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